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First timing belt overhaul

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First timing belt overhaul

Postby bdailey » January 28th, 2018, 3:14 pm

Started this timing belt overhaul this afternoon. Literally ran into a little hiccup with the first step. The radiator drain plug on my car appears to be broken. There was a small 6.5 mm bolt up through the bottom of the Phillips head. Removed the bolt, and the Phillips head came out. There still appears to be part of the plug inside there... and no coolant came out. I cannot seem to upload pictures as it is telling me they are too large.

I ended up just draining the coolant through the lower rad hose so I could proceed. Any ideas on how to ge the rest I’d the plug out without damaging anything?



Thanks!
Brian
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Re: First timing belt overhaul

Postby bdailey » January 28th, 2018, 7:42 pm

Second question, Haynes stated that pistons rech TDc at both the exhaust and compression stroke. They say true TDC is when the piston is in hmtge compression stroke. Is this essential for a tuning belt swap? I actually have a compression tester but it’s on loan to my father in law and I don’t expect to get that back anytime soon. Cheers
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Re: First timing belt overhaul

Postby 3rd Pedal » January 28th, 2018, 9:47 pm

bdailey wrote:Second question, Haynes stated that pistons rech TDc at both the exhaust and compression stroke. They say true TDC is when the piston is in hmtge compression stroke. Is this essential for a tuning belt swap? I actually have a compression tester but it’s on loan to my father in law and I don’t expect to get that back anytime soon. Cheers


When the number 1 piston is at TDC, the timing mark should point to the TDC mark on the front damper, and the first lobe on each cam should be pointing out.

With the plus out rotate the crank to TDC, with both the timing mark on the damper at TDC and the first lobe on each cam pointing outward before you remove the belt.

It's also easier to remove the radiator with the fans still attached, rather than removing the fans. You will have more room to work and less chance of damaging the radiator.

A good how to with photos: http://www.villacorte.com/miata/timing_belt/index.html
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Re: First timing belt overhaul

Postby arathol » January 29th, 2018, 5:22 pm

If I remember right, your car is a 96?
Make sure you line up the correct timing mark. There are two on the damper. The left one is the TDC mark and should line up with the T mark, the right most mark should be 10° off the scale to the right.

Image
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Re: First timing belt overhaul

Postby 3miataFamily » January 30th, 2018, 8:20 am

it really doesn't matter when you take things apart. pull all the stuff off the front of the motor...remove the timing belt, idlers, cam gears, ets...replace all the seals and get ready to reassemble

there is a notch on the lower crank gear and a nub behind it on the oil pump...that is TDC when lined up

Just remember...when the timing belt breaks, everything is all out of whack anyway...and no damage...so the position prior to disassembly has no bearing on anything...it is the assembly part that matters

then rotate the cams so the front lobes point outward...then install the timing belt and proceed with all the rest...and don't forget to do the belt tensioning procedure...

I have been doing these for quite a while and have done over 40...its not that hard.
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Re: First timing belt overhaul

Postby markbaker » January 30th, 2018, 10:10 am

Take a look at this video from a UK programme. Car SOS. Think Wheeler Dealers, but for a good cause. http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x605qtt

At 14.40 into the programme, they talk about cam belt replacement. Fuzz Townsend talks about cam belt failure, but seems he does not know about the Mazda engine. Eitherway, there is a top tip for the cam belt replacement. Take a look. I’ve not tried it myself.

Mark Baker
97 NA, Classic Red.
99 NB, 10AE
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Re: First timing belt overhaul

Postby bdailey » February 10th, 2018, 3:23 pm

Thermostat seems to be stuck pretty tight in the housing. Anything I should know before pulling it out with pliers etc? Obviously I have a new one to install in its place. Thank you!
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Re: First timing belt overhaul

Postby bdailey » February 10th, 2018, 7:01 pm

thermostat came out. However I may need help here. I was taking the cam gears off when the exhaust cam skipped. I was using the two crescent wrench method for holding them in place. the bolt on the cam gear (like all of the others) was a bit stuck, and in my effort to remove it the wrench slipped off.... and the cam gear moved. Not exaclty sure how to proceed... and I still do not have the bolt off the cam gear. Any help is greatly appreciated as always. Im quitting for the night, bring on the Narragansetts.
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Re: First timing belt overhaul

Postby arathol » February 10th, 2018, 8:25 pm

Keeping the cams lined up doesn't really matter until its time to put it back together. Just get it apart, worry about the timing when you reassemble. Its not hard to do. Crank gear marks lined up, align the I and the E on the gears with the marks on the cover, 19 teeth between the marks on the gears. Cam lobes on # 1 cylinder should be horizontally opposed pointed to the outside.
You don't need to remove the gear from the cam. Just loosen up the belt tensioner and slide the belt off.
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Re: First timing belt overhaul

Postby bdailey » February 10th, 2018, 9:03 pm

I have two new cam seals that I was hoping to install. Got one cam gear bolt loose already. Should I avoid an impact wrench on a cam bolt? My gut tells me yes
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Re: First timing belt overhaul

Postby arathol » February 10th, 2018, 9:21 pm

Might have some loctite in there.
I zipped mine out with an impact. Should not be that hard to remove. Just make sure you use a bit of blue loctite - not red - and torque accordingly on assembly.
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Re: First timing belt overhaul

Postby bdailey » February 10th, 2018, 9:29 pm

arathol wrote:Might have some loctite in there.
I zipped mine out with an impact. Should not be that hard to remove. Just make sure you use a bit of blue loctite - not red - and torque accordingly on assembly.



Should I just mark the position of the cam sprocket to the backing plate then and remove? Reinstall with marks aligned then worry about re timing after as you suggested earlier?
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Re: First timing belt overhaul

Postby arathol » February 10th, 2018, 10:34 pm

All the timing marks you need are already in place. Just make sure you put the gears back in the same position on the cams as they were, with the pin in the correct slot.
A quick search and found this picture on the web-

Image
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Re: First timing belt overhaul

Postby 3miataFamily » February 11th, 2018, 12:31 pm

You might be overthinking things just a little bit...several of the above posts have given good tips...

no worry if the cams move...no worry using an impact to remove cam gear bolt...lining things up can be a bit tricky, because the intake cam likes to move a little bit.

take your time...to install the belt start on the lower gear, then go to the exhaust cam...then the intake cam then over the tensioner, which should be pushed all the way to the left when looking at it from the front of the car. then loosen the tensioner bolt and let the spring do its thing. tighten the tensioner bolt. then do the belt tensioning procedure

there is another mark to the left of the TDC mark on the front of the oil pump. rotate the crank 1 full turn then on the next turn stop the TDC mark on the back of the crank gear at this secont mark. loosen the tensioner bolt again, let the spring take up any slack..tighten the bolt, then rotate two full turns plus a little bit to get back to TDC and check all your marks. if you did it right, everything lines up...TDC at the crank gear, the two marks on the cam gears on the humps on the backing plate, and 19 teeth between the marks at the top of the cam gears...Miller Time!!

i did respond to your PM in this forum with my phone number...feel free to jingle me

Joe
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Re: First timing belt overhaul

Postby bdailey » February 11th, 2018, 7:53 pm

Many thanks to Joe for the help today! One last question for today, in the video that I was originally using as a guide the presenter removes the cam caps to make removing the cam seals easier. Following this he uses a sealant around the space between the cam caps and the block. If I do not remove the cam caps is the sealant needed? For that much if I do remove the caps is the sealant needed? Thanks again!!

Brian
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Re: First timing belt overhaul

Postby bdailey » February 21st, 2018, 11:15 am

Had a chance to work on the car today. I am unable to remove the two bolts that image on the side of the water pump. I believe they are 12 mm and I can somewhat get a welfench on the bottom one.. any advice here would beg greatly appreciated. Really just struggling with access to them. Thank you. Brian.
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Re: First timing belt overhaul

Postby 3rd Pedal » February 21st, 2018, 7:47 pm

bdailey wrote:Had a chance to work on the car today. I am unable to remove the two bolts that image on the side of the water pump. I believe they are 12 mm and I can somewhat get a welfench on the bottom one.. any advice here would beg greatly appreciated. Really just struggling with access to them. Thank you. Brian.


As mentioned in this photo from the how to I linked in a post above, remove the piviot bolt to the power steering pump and pull to away (toward the drivers side fender, retain it with wire/zip tie till it's time to put it back together).
Image

This will give you open access to the bolts to the water pump side inlet.
A flex head Gearwrench works well here.

Image
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Re: First timing belt overhaul

Postby 3miataFamily » February 22nd, 2018, 10:13 am

thanks for the pics Jerry...had a conversation yesterday with Brian about these side bolts...and he should be all set now
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Re: First timing belt overhaul

Postby bdailey » February 22nd, 2018, 3:15 pm

Got them out. Right now I have the new pump in, new crank and cam seals. Had to quit for the day, planning on resuming tomorrow. At least I am in the reassembling phase now! Cheers, Brian
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